Pricing, Happy Customers and Traffic with No List! Fred Gleek

Pricing, Happy Customers and Traffic with No List! Fred Gleek

Hey, Fred, what is going on? Welcome back to this week. This has been ... I think this is week 6 or 7 now of this podcast. What's crazy is when I started doing my podcast, I actually started my podcast a couple of years ago, to teach a course for people on how to do it. Podcasting didn't really have any traction in those days, so I let it die. If you go look, there's a podcast from 2013. Maybe I would 2 or 3 a year. I think in the last, I don't know, 2 months, 3 months, there's been literally 3 or 4 every single week. What's amazing is the traction that podcasting has these days, and I think that the lesson for me in all of it, was you never know who's listening or what's going to happen.

I look back on it and go, "I really wish that I would have just done something every single week, or once a month, or whatever that schedule was since 2013." We're doing well in the rankings on the podcast now, but man, it would've been a whole lot easier if I would've just built on it and said, "It's just one of those things I'm going to do, wait until the snowball effect happens."

Fred Gleeck:
It's funny. I was all cued up to tell you a story, but because of what you said, I'll start with another one, which really relates to this. Years and years ago, I used to teach continuing education classes. I was in New York City, and there's this place called the Learning Annex. I used to teach classes through them. Before there was the Learning Annex, there was a place before that called the Discovery Center, which was a crappy version of what then was a ...

One day, I'm sitting there, and I'm teaching this class on how to do your own seminars and workshops. My best-selling book on Amazon is Marketing and Promoting Your Own Seminars and Workshops. I did this seminar. I showed up at this classroom, because they'd have it in a public school or whatever, they booked space. There were 5 people there. Normally, what happens when you have 5 people and you want 30 people in the room at least, you're all bummed out, disappointed, and you generally give a pretty crappy performance, because you're bummed out that only 5 people showed up. I always tell people previous to that, I would say, "Look, the people who showed up, they deserve the same quality of presentation as the people who weren't there that you wanted there."

Here's what happened, talking about the whole podcasting thing. I gave this presentation to 5 people, unbeknownst to me, one of the people was the CEO of Working Woman Magazine. She then hook me up to all kinds of stuff that was worth thousands of dollars. The lesson there is, no matter what you're doing to how many people, you better give it your best, because you'll never know who's watching.

Lance Tamashiro:
Really, in a room of ... If you wanted 30 people, you're at a pretty good closing rate or selling rate if you close 5 people. If you just ... The way I tend to look at it, and I know that feeling. It sucks when you're expecting 100, and 20 show up, or you're expecting whatever. One of the things that I have to do for myself mentally is go, "Those were my 5 buying units anyway. Now I just get to close at a 100%, rather than a 30%, or whatever."

Fred Gleeck:
Yeah. It's funny, because back then, this is in the mid-80s ...

Lance Tamashiro:
They heyday of the seminar or selling.

Fred Gleeck:
Yeah. I was the only person within that structure, I believe, that was selling anything at the presentation. I would deliver this ... I'd give them a lot of content, and I close them. People would be like, "How come you're doing those stupid classes at the Discovery Center." I go, "Dude, it's not about the money they're giving me. I don't really care. In fact, I would never monitor the checks. They would send them to me occasionally. They'd give me some pittance for that, but I would close a whole bunch of people." You're right, the smaller the amount of people in the room, the greater the higher my closing ratio.

Lance Tamashiro:
Yeah. They're the better people to begin with.

Fred Gleeck:
Absolutely. Here's the follow on to that, real quick. It relates to seminars as well. I had this situation. As of tomorrow, here in Los Angeles, I was going to be going to a 2-day event for $97. I saw this guy put up something. I won't give specifics because of the story. 97 bucks for 2 days, I'm going ... First off, I'm a little suspicious, because it's like, "That's too cheap." He immediately ... I signed up I think on Monday. Yesterday, I get an email from him, obviously he throw me onto a list that said, "Oh, by the way, my seminar in Los Angeles, I have 3 free tickets for whoever wants them."

I immediately the guy and go, "Hey, dude, you wanted to charge me $97 bucks to show up. Now you're sending the emails telling me you're going to give 3 tickets away for free. I'm pretty annoyed." In my ... This is a nice little plug here. I wrote a blog post. I was blogging 3 times a week for 5 years in a row, and then I just got bored, and so my last blog post was some time in 2015. I put a blog post up yesterday on FredGleeck.com, everyone can see it, that talks about this incident. Basically, what I talked about is how do you handle it? All of us have been in situations where we had seminars where not enough people showed up. I gave specific suggestions on this blog post as to how people should do this properly to not piss anybody off.

Lance Tamashiro:
I think this is huge. We're not talking about the same guy, but there's another seminar being promoted right now that started off $697 for a ticket. As of today, it's $97 for 2 people, and I was thinking, "Man, maybe we're talking about the same seminar, because this one is also in the Los Angeles area." I look at it, and I haven't seen your blog post and all of that. My philosophy with whether it's selling a product, or selling a seminar, or selling a service is always start low, and then raise the price, because you're never going to piss somebody off because they paid less than somebody else. You're always going to piss somebody off if they pay more.

In fact, I was talking to my business partner about this other seminar yesterday. I said, "If I had bought ... Well, first thing is if I hadn't bought or said I was going to the seminar yet, I wouldn't go, because what my assumption is that you didn't sell any tickets, and I don't want to be the only person going." That's the first thing. The second thing is if you did sell any tickets at $400, $500, $600, $97, and now they're $40, I'm pissed off as a buyer. I'm not going because you've lowered ... Even if you refund me the money, I'm not going because I paid-"

Fred Gleeck:
Wait a second. Have you read my blog post?

Lance Tamashiro:
No, I haven't. I totally haven't.

Fred Gleeck:
Okay. Even to what you're saying, we're again of like mind, because those are a couple of points that I made too.

Lance Tamashiro:
Yeah. I think you can't go wrong. When we've done seminars because it's always ... The bottom line is it's scary. It's a scary thing to put money down for a room. There's a perception of how do you manage. Everybody wants to say, "Look, I got a thousand people." The truth is it's hard when 50 show up, then what do you do? What we always try to do was we would bundle free. We would say, "If you buy our $500 course, you get a free ticket to this even, which is happening here." That way we can control that. We know we're going to make sales. It makes a good bonus for a high ticket product. We know those people are coming.

Then it doesn't matter what we charge because they just got it as a bonus for another program, plus we know we have people coming. Then it's like ... I don't know. I always feel like ... For me, this is just in our business, we always sell better when we're raising the price. It creates urgency. It creates scarcity. It also creates a perception that it's selling. If you're raising your price, it's selling. When I see people lowering their price, I know that they're not making any money. I think it's looking long-term and ... Man, you make a whole heck of a lot more money long-term wise, and people go, "Well, I'm not going to start my price at 97. I want to sell it at 500." I'm thinking, "But if you sell 10 because it's at 97, you not only get people in the room or units in your class, you're not losing ... You're losing money if you price it at 500 and nobody buys it because your offer isn't a $500 offer."

Fred Gleeck:
Okay. Let's use the real life scenario here. My new voice over client got ... He was talking so much about the voice over business, but just because it's going on. My newest client is another one of the other big shots in that industry, this guy named Dave Fennoy who is ... He's done a ton of voices for video games.

Lance Tamashiro:
I was showing his stuff to some of my friends. I was like, "You guys ever heard of this guy?" and I played the Hulu thing. Everybody knows him from Hulu. "Oh, that's the Hulu guy."

Fred Gleeck:
That's what he goes by. He's the Hulu guy, but he also happens to be just a really good guy, super nice, great person, and has done tons of video game voices for all ... Literally, he's in IMDB as one of the 20 greatest video voices of all time. We're going to be a doing a seminar with him June 10th through the 12th in Los Angeles. 10th, which is a Friday, and again, he ... I'm becoming the person that's handling this side of the business, the training side of his business. I am sitting there with this kind of situation. He can only have and do training for 16 people, because we want to do it in a studio, and he can't really give personal attention. That's the 2-day part, and that's Saturday and Sunday.

Friday, we do a 7 to 9pm 50 bucks, sort of his basic for all the people who aren't willing to pay the bigger price for Saturday and Sunday, but we want to have that. People who paid for Saturday and Sunday, they can come to that for free. He's never charged a whole lot of money for it, and so I said to him, "If we're only 16 people, Dave, you're the man, or at least one of the man, people, not to be sexist here, who is a person everybody knows in this industry." I said "$997," and he was like, "997 bucks, I've never charged more than that." I said, "No, no, no, no." First off, we only have 16 people, you are the person. I wasn't able to get him to go for that, but I said, "Look, I'm from Vegas, we got to do 777 then.

He agreed to that. Now we're doing a Friday night event and then Saturday, Sunday. Here's my question for you. What do you think? He's got 13,000 Twitter followers. We do not have an established list. I said to him, "Bill would happy to promote it for you." I said ... Bill, we were standing right here, I'd say, "We don't really want to pay Bill unless we have to. We can fill all these seats ourselves." Now, what's a strategy you think for him, given the fact that we're just starting with no list?

Lance Tamashiro:
The first thing I would do is definitely get those out to the Twitter people, but here's something that I think that a lot of people without list, but have an established blog, an established following, are missing out on, and that is re-targeted marketing. He's got a blog that people go to. He's got a site that people go to. You can go ... Their service the one that we use is called AdRoll, A-D-R-O-L-L.com, AdRoll.com. They give you tracking link that you stink on the bottom of your websites, your blogs, anything at all that you've got. What happens is that they have media contracts with everybody, with Google for AdWords, with Facebook on Facebook Ads, with every site.

Have you ever noticed that sometimes you're like on Facebook, or on CNN, or some site, and you're like, "That's weird that I see back up creator ad from ... or anybody." It's like, "I was just at their site, or I just bought a car, or I just ... Now I'm seeing their ads everywhere." That's what they're doing. It's called retargeting. The cool thing about it is it's super cheap because you're targeting a list of just people that have visited your website. You put this tracking code on there, and then you make a creative. That way you can at least follow them around for really cheap. It will come out to 50 cents to a dollar per click. That's in our industry, which is a little more expensive. I don't know what ads cost in that.

If it was anywhere even between a dollar or $2 per click, what you know about those people is, one, they know who he is. 2, they've been to his website, so they're a hot ... It's not like you're just throwing stuff out there, like on AdWords, or you're like, "I'm just going to advertise the voice over seminar or something like that." I would do that, and I would use Twitter to drive traffic to a website, not necessarily the seminar website, although you might want to do some to the seminar website. If he made a video of him ... The one thing that I've noticed that the voice over crowd love is they like to see people actually recording stuff. That's the one thing I see with Bill's stuff.

If he said, "I'm going to record. Here's a recording of me in the studio, doing an ad for XYZ, or just practicing." or "Here's what I do when I do this." People would all flip out, and now you're building a list without building a list, if that-

Fred Gleeck:
Here's what my plan is. I've already scheduled, and I forget what the dates are, but if anybody is ... You'll eventually find it, which is we're going to be doing 2 webinars, one in April, one in May, that are free. Free webinars in which he's going to talk about what we're going to cover. I'm going to get some stuff, and I'm going to pick one person where he will do a live coaching session that he would do if all of them ... The reason why I ask to narrow it to 16 people is all of them get private coaching on how they read for these characters.

Lance Tamashiro:
What I was thinking as you were saying ... That's the first thing. The second thing is you can target URLs in Google AdWords. There's this voice over bulletin board. There's these things. You can even target within those. Those a place in-

Fred Gleeck:
A page within a page.

Lance Tamashiro:
Right, a page within a site. You can put in that URL. You can write an ad. We used to run one. We resell wish list members, and we do membership training. There was this really popular blog post that we found that had AdWords on it. We used to run an ad that said like, "Welcome users of ... Here's the special 4 because we knew where the ad was running, so we could customize the ad for those specific people. You can do stuff like that.

Here's the big thing. I think just as selling seminars or selling high ticket products in general, it doesn't matter, but I think the biggest problem is the mindset shift that people need to get out of, what their worth is. I think $800, you're talking about a minimum of 16 hours of him teaching, 8 hours a day. Then you factor in lunch, travel, hanging out with people before, after all those things. Literally, this guy is going to put in 25 hours of work. You start running the math backwards on what his hourly rate is, minus travel, minus hotels, minus rooms, minus all of this stuff, it's not as big.

People like to look at the number, people like to say, "Oh my gosh. This guy ran a launch, and it was XYZ." You start running the numbers backwards, it ain't as much as people think it is. $800 to get 16 hours of training, you're talking about ... What is that? $50 an hour.

Fred Gleeck:
Yeah.

Lance Tamashiro:
When you start comparing ... I think that's one of the things that we always try to do when we're making an offer is ... Yes, the number might feel big at first, but you can minimize that number really quick when you go, "Here is what it would cost to get a demo cut." Most coaches charge a 125 per hour. You're going to get 1 on 1 with this guy. All of a sudden, it starts to look really cheap. I think that’s a sales team that whether you're struggling with pricing high, look at what your real number are, and all of a sudden, even a thousand dollars looks cheap.

Fred Gleeck:
Okay. You and I probably will disagree on this, but it's good for people to hear this. In the copy that I'm writing for this particular thing, which by the way I think is going to be ... It's a voice acting for videogames.com or voice acting for games.com. Both of them go to the same place, not up yet. If you're listening to this right away, it may or may not be up by the tie you hear this on the podcast. What I'm doing there is given the fact that I'm certain we're going to sell the 16 seats, my guess is that we're holding it here in Los Angeles. My guess it that 50% of the people, maybe more, will be local. 8 to 10 people are going to be from this area, driving distance definitely.

I'm going to immediately put in there in my copy. We are going to be selling the recordings of this program. It's going to be 3.97 until June 1st. Then after that it's going to be 4.97. The question is to you ... I know that lot of times, you don't like advertising the fact that you're recording something in advance. Whereas, in this case, since I have a maximum number of people, would you change your ... Are you okay with doing it that way?

Lance Tamashiro:
I wouldn't, and here's why. I don't want people buying the recording instead of showing up live. The first thing-

Fred Gleeck:
I think we're going to sell out.

Lance Tamashiro:
The first thing I want is to sell the 16, and then announce the recording. In that way then it's an extra nice bonus for the people that show up live, even though you didn't put it on there or put that they'll get a recording, but I wouldn't sell the recording until it's sold out.

Fred Gleeck:
Okay. Let's say for example that we're holding the seminar June 10th through 12th, and let's just say that by May 1st it sold out. Now, do we advertise on the site?

Lance Tamashiro:
Yeah. All you can get is the recordings. Again, this is personal preference thing, this is me, but this was a big fad that started in the internet marketing business seminar thing a couple of years ago where they started selling live streams. I know for me personally, I could go into seminars. Why would I go spend $2,000 to go to a seminar that I really wanted to only see 1 or 2 speakers anyway, when I could by the stream for $37 and be at home on my schedule in my house on my thing and get the same experience. For a while at the internet marketing seminars, they would say come to the thing or buy the stream, and I bought the dang stream because it was easier for me.

Fred Gleeck:
Cheaper. You didn't have to ... In other words ... In that case, let's say that those internet marketing folks have filled all of their seats, at that point you'd up a live stream.

Lance Tamashiro:
Yeah. If it's legitimately full, I would just say stack how you want to sell it. Why take somebody that was willing to come to the live event and they go, "Hmm. I'll just stay home and get the recording."?

Fred Gleeck:
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I think that make sense to do it that way. As soon as you've already filled it up and you're at capacity, you then move to selling the recording. I think, yeah, that's a good strategy.

Lance Tamashiro:
I do think that webinar is a fantastic idea, and it doesn't matter whether you're selling a seminar, coaching, software, training, whatever it is, I think webinars and videos are awesome, and the reason is because you can give them the experience of what it is without them even knowing that they're getting that experience. If it's software and you're just demonstrating the software, people see it and go, "Oh my gosh, I need to be able to do that." makes it an easy sale.

We sell a coaching program just like I know you guys do as well. What we do is we try to get people on the phone for a free coaching session, so that they feel that it's like how we coach them, the kind of advice that we give them. Then at the end we say, "If you like this, we also have XYZ program that is the same thing, and here's what it is." All of a sudden they go, "Oh, I know what that is now. Now it makes sense. I can buy that."

Fred Gleeck:
I want to hear that pitch. Okay. You and I, we've just finished our 15-minute free call. When do you do that? What does it sound like?

Lance Tamashiro:
Usually, how we end our coaching calls is we'll say ... We have a time limit and we'll say, "We're running out of time here, so let's get your last question and then make sure that whatever you need the most gets answered." That way they know that they're wrapping it up and then there's no more back and forth. They as their last question, we give them the answer, and then we say, "We had a great time doing this with you. It's nice to get to know you and see your business. We have a lot of other ideas that we think we can add on for you. Why don't you go and check out this program here? It's an awesome value. It's pretty easy. It's always there for you. We'll send you a link. We'll do whatever."

You don't have to do a hard sale pitch after you've just spent 30 minutes with somebody coaching. It's "You know what I do, do you want more of this? Here's where to get it?"

Fred Gleeck:
Right. There's no hard sell, it's just like, "Hey, you've seen me do this, here's the link. If you want it, get it."

Lance Tamashiro:
I think in the coaching industry, so many people, they're so afraid of giving it all away. We've talked about this before. My take on all of that is there's always more questions. The more that you can give away, the absolute better. If I've just solved what you thought was every one of your questions, and you go and implement everything that I just told you, that's going to raise more questions than you had. It's going to raise questions you didn't even know you had. That' when they need to come back to you.

Fred Gleeck:
Here's an example. I think I may have told you about this. I was checking an inventory of what I'm really, really good at. I was mentioning it to my wife yesterday. I said you know the one thing that I'm probably better at that anything else is I've done over 2,000 interviews with business people. I've done 2,000 interviews talking to them, asking them questions, picking their brain. I have this site. I have this program I did years ago with Kerry Dean, called ExpertInterviewer.com.

ExpertInterviewer.com, and for anybody who's thinking about going to the site, please wait a while because you can get all this for free. Here's where I'm going. My whole idea is that I think I can show people how to be a better interviewer, number 1, or a couple of other things related to that topic. What I'm going to do is I just downloaded ... I hadn't seen my own audio program. I downloaded it. I'm going to get it transcribed. I'm going to put the audios and the transcriptions up for free on the site.

At ExpertInterviewer.com, if you go there and it's not free, do not buy it. Wait until it's up there for free. Now, my goal would be, at the bottom of the site to say, "Hey, if this stuff gets you excited, you want more information, click here to schedule." I'm going to try and get some of the scheduling program you're talking about. "Click here to schedule a 15-minute free call." Any thoughts?

Lance Tamashiro:
Yeah. I think it's good. I think that the one thing about the interview model in general is there's so many routes you can go to monetize it, from the obvious ones of just packaging them up and selling them, to podcast, to training programs. I think that the one thing ... I get a lot of people that they say, "Why are you doing so many interviews for your podcast? Why are you reaching out to that?" The part that people don't see is that my networking. I'm not doing it ... Yes, I'm doing it to provide value for the listeners and do all that, but I haven't even started monetizing my podcast.

When people look at it, they're like, "You don't run ads. You don't do anything. You're just putting it out there. Why?" What the part that they don't see is all of the connections that I'm making on the backend with these people. I think for me there's so many ways to monetize the interview model, some that are really obvious, some that aren't. One of our best-selling books is a collection of interviews that's just transcribed and put together. It's just straight the interviews. Yeah, I think that it's an easy way to create lots of content. You're never going to run out of people to interview in any niche that you're in. I've never had somebody say, "No, you can't interview me."

Fred Gleeck:
Yeah. I always call myself ... I don't know if you've heard me use this a lot, but I think I used it one time on a [inaudible 00:25:44]. I call myself Mr. Stupid because I go, "I think I have asked Mr.Stupid.com." because I think that many times when people are listening to one person just blab on about something, there's always ... I'm the one that wants to ask the question that I'm hoping that my listeners are saying, "Yeah. Hey, Fred, good question. That's what I would've asked him as well." I'm trying to service their advocate rather ... When people get on and they record programs with just them talking to the mic or looking into the camera talking, I think that's really ... I don't care if your Tony Robins. I don't think it's nearly as effective as doing a back and forth like what we're doing here.

Lance Tamashiro:
Yeah. I agree, and it's easier to listen to, and it's easier for the people doing the content.

Fred Gleeck:
Absolutely.

Lance Tamashiro:
It's always easier. As a trick that I used to do, because I don't do this anymore, when I would write blog post or try to come up with my podcast stuff, I would always start with a question as fi somebody asked me. "Lance, what do you think about XYZ?" Suddenly it became easier for me to write a blog post rather than ... If I was going to write a blog post on how to pod cast, I'd be like, "Okay. How do I do this?" If I picture somebody asking me the question how to podcast, that one little weird trick in your brain triggers something. If somebody asks you a question, you have to answer it, versus starting with a statement.

Fred Gleeck:
I don't think we've discussed it on your podcast here, but I think one of the things you talk about making things easier for yourself. The one thing that I've done, I don't know if we've discussed this. If I have, excuse me for repeating myself, but I have come up with what they term a schema for putting all of my affiliate relationships is. For example, mine is coolblanktool.com. Have we talked about that?

Lance Tamashiro:
Yeah. I think that's a great idea. Any system is a good system.

Fred Gleeck:
The reason why I did that is because whenever I was talking in front of a group or talking like you and I would always be sitting there going, "Oh man, I know I've got an affiliate deal with someone having to do with websites, so coolwebsitetool.com." I think that people ... If you want to make your life easier, come up with systems. You guys are great at that. You and Robert always do stuff. By the way, one of the things that was brilliant last night, which we talked about on our fiber discussion, was the idea, you should talk about this right now because I want to hear what your take is on it, of getting people to go back to a member's area to click on the 4 things that they have to do. Explain to people listening why they should be doing this for themselves, why it's so effective.

Lance Tamashiro:
Yes. Our strategy with membership site is different in most people. Most people that I see they’ll sell a program, they’ll post the videos, and that’s it, so you go there once to sign in. Our strategy with membership site is something completely different where it's, we want ... I felt like a lot of people create products and they don’t really want people to go through them. They’re afraid of refunds. They’re afraid of negative feedback, whatever it is. Our strategy is we want people to consume our products. We want people to see them and we want people to think that we’re different than all of our competitions because we are. That’s how you get people coming back to buy from you.

What we do is we build in what we call sticky components into our websites. We want people logging in into our membership sites every day. We don’t want people to forget about us. We want to be Facebook. We want to be Gmail. We want to be all of the sites where even though it’s training, we want you in our site. We create tools like in the class we’re doing right now, we have templates. Fill in the blank where they don’t have to write anything, they can click on a few things, customize it, click a button, so what happens? They have to comeback every time they want to use that template. Now, they’re thinking about us again. They’re looking at the training again. They’re remembering that they’ve got to do something.

What we’ve added in to the member’s area now is an area where we’ve got some certain task that we think the people need to be doing every day. We built a little application that basically they go in and it tells them the last time they said, "I did this." It just keeps a real-time counter for them. Every day, they can log in and click it again, and it resets the counter. Then it says, "It’s been 10 seconds since you've done that. It's been one ..." What that does is 2 things. We know that they will get results if they do that. It trains them to the tasks to get the results. Why? Well, then they’re remember me next time they want to buy something that I got them results when nobody else did.

The second thing is it trains them to keep coming back to the member’s area. They’re watching the videos, again, to consume the training. That’s the number one goal is get people to consume your training by building in these sticky things. The next thing that is going to probably be released into that member’s area is a checklist where we’ve got a pie chart of there’s x number steps that you need to do to be successful. Did you click off one? The pie charts start eating the way as they click that up.

Fred Gleeck:
It’s a video percentage too?

Lance Tamashiro:
Yeah. It gives them this gamification, this sticky thing to get them coming back and people go, "Oh, you’ve got all these gimmicks. What I need to do is a gimmick." Yes they're gimmicky, but the whole goal behind is to get people to get result. I think that that gets lost so much in selling product online that the people focus so much on the sales letter and on the selling of the product. The truth is, if you get people results, you will never have a problem selling a product. You don’t even have to sales page. If you get people results and put up a buy button, they will buy if you’ve got them results.

Fred Gleeck:
Absolutely. That goes so in opposition to what you and I tend to hate, which is the people who are selling your product only to try and sell the next product in the content as opposed to over delivering the crap out of the original product and having them go, "Hey, when is your next product? I want to buy it."

Lance Tamashiro:
I want to be really clear too. I believe in hypy direct response sales letters. I’m not saying don’t have an over the top sales. Make sure you’re telling the truth, but I believe that people like to get excited. If you deliver on that promise, man, you just hit a homerun. I’m not saying don’t sell hard. What I’m saying is, "Sell hard, and deliver awesome."

Fred Gleeck:
If you want to see an example in this industry, the VOSuccessfulFormula.com is as hypy as sales letter you can get. Now, the people who are in that program after their third week are going, "This is the greatest thing since sliced bread." We hyped the sales letter and then over delivered on it. Those people, the next time we say, "Oh by the way, Lance has new thing." People are going, "Sign me up. I don't care how much it."

Lance Tamashiro:
Yeah. The other think that we tend to do is not announce everything. That’s a big key. So many people that I see doing products, events, live courses, whatever, is they want to have it all planned. They’ve got the slides down for all the modules beforehand. The truth is that we try to do things fluidly because we don’t know what issues are going to come up.

Fred Gleeck:
Wait, I’m a little confused. What you’re saying is you don’t have a plan and advance, exactly what your deliverables-

Lance Tamashiro:
We have an idea. We’ve got what they’re going to get and how it’s going to get there. The content itself, I mean I’m putting that together right before the webinar, because I want to see where they’re at and where they’re stuck. In that way, if the live people are stuck, the replay people are going to be stuck too. You make a better product by not being too rigid with it. The other thing is we don’t like to tell everything that they’re going to get. Nobody in this class expected the member’s area ... Even you guys, we didn’t tell that some of the tools that were going to be in there, and there are stuff that we just do in all of our stuff, but they didn’t know that.

Transcripts, adding those in, nobody knew that that was coming, and you start adding those things in, even if you know they’re going to be added in, and you don’t tell them, now all of a sudden people are going, "Oh my gosh. This is so worth it."

Fred Gleeck:
I don’t think we talked about this, so it's worth to explaining to our listeners, which is that you are then ... Unbeknownst to the people that are in this program, they’re going to be getting the DVDs. What are they getting? They don’t know this yet, do they?

Lance Tamashiro:
Some are. The [inaudible 00:34:27] members, we’re going to be sending some extra stuff to for free to those members.

Fred Gleeck:
Okay. That stuff is going to be what?

Lance Tamashiro:
It’s going to be a ... Let me see if I can ...

Fred Gleeck:
Do you know yet?

Lance Tamashiro:
Let me see. I'll show you here, one second.

Fred Gleeck:
Okay.

Lance Tamashiro:
I don’t think that you’ve actually seen this stuff before. What we do is we create ... I don’t know if you can see this or not, but we create professionally done DVDs, individual for each module, with printed on silk screen DVD stuff. We create these big old thick manuals with screen shots. This one is close, but full blown books with professional covers. Here’s the reason why.

Nobody is going to throw this stuff away. I’ve got DVDs on my shelf from years ago, because I like the way look. They look cool in my office. If I’m on your bookshelf in your office, and you look up and see this bright orange thing, or this the hypy blue thing, you’re thinking, "Oh yeah. I remember Lance did that for me." Now, I’m in your home. It’s not a business card, it’s a "I'm in your home and you’re looking at me every single day." These things are cheap to do. One DVD with shipping I think is 7 bucks.

Fred Gleeck:
Is that Kunaki? Why do you use?

Lance Tamashiro:
Kunaki. Yeah, Kunaki.com. Then we use Lulu.com for the books. I think this one is $7 shipped or $8 shipped, and it’s 354 pages with color. For customer retention, it’s nothing. It’s nothing off your top end to spend 5%, 3% of the revenue to retain somebody. Yeah. These are some cool little things-

Fred Gleeck:
Again, in your case, we didn’t announce any of this. You’re making a selection as to who’s going to get this way over the top extra. Right?

Lance Tamashiro:
Yeah. The people that are in the [inaudible 00:36:39] members, which is Bill's sort of membership site. Here’s the reason. It's good Bill offers people discounts and different things for being in his inner circle, so my whole thought is why not just over deliver the crap out of those people because then they’re never going to go anywhere, and they’re never going to do anything? One of the things that I think that gets lost so much is more than what you sell, and what you do, all people really care about at the end of the day is how you treat them. I think that business, in general, not just online, but specially online, but even offline too, we’ve lost that personal connection, that personal touch.

Everybody talks about know, like, and trust. I’ve never seen anybody that actually implements it. Nobody picks up the phone and calls. Nobody sends stuff. Nobody checks in anymore, but they all talk about know, like, and trust. That’s how you build a business, one person at a time, one phone call at a time. You can have the biggest list in the world. If you talk to them, they will never get off your list, and they will read every email that you send them.

Fred Gleeck:
That’s a great place to end this week’s podcast.

Lance Tamashiro:
Awesome. As always, everybody thank you for listening. Please go to iTunes, rate and review us. I looked this morning. We are number 22 in the business and marketing section.

Fred Gleeck:
Moving up.

Lance Tamashiro:
Moving up. Thank you guys very much. We will talk to you on the next episode. Have a great day, everybody. Bye now.

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