Grow Your Audience and Brand – Rachna Jain

Grow Your Audience and Brand – Rachna Jain

Lance Tamashiro:
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Lance Tamashiro Show. We have a really special guest today. Today's guest is Dr. Rachna Jain and one of the things that I wanted to have her on the show for is not only is she an expert in internet marketing and helping people get started and lots of things like that but also, I mean she has worked with basically a who's who of the internet marketing world of entrepreneurs in general. People from Mark Victor Hansen, Loral Langemeier, Kevin Nations, Mark Loconi, all of these different people and one of the things that she's very good at is helping people grow their fan base using content marketing, generating traffic, doing SEO strategies and so I thought it would be perfect to have her here in order to help you guys get going, maybe get you guys moving in the right direction and also hopefully to share some of her wisdom. Dr. Jain, I'm super excited to have you here today. Welcome to the show and maybe to get started here, maybe if you could just talk about how you even got started in this internet marketing online business world.

Dr. R. Jain:
Sure. Absolutely and thanks for having me. I was looking forward to this all day. I actually have been working online since about 1998 which was pretty much the start of the internet as we know it. I like to say that I started when I was very, very young because now it doesn't make me sound so old but actually the way I started was a little bit accidentally. Back then, dial-up was still very prevalent. There wasn't a lot of broadband and the internet was new. The way that I started online was I'm a psychologist by training and I built my first website using this really, really old program called Trelics and it was a one page website that was super ugly but I used it to grow my psychology practice. I began studying internet marketing at that point and I was able to build a practice from clients finding me online.

It was actually really good medium for me at the time but I was incredibly shy and I found it really difficult to go out and market in person so there was something very appealing about sitting in my office and being able to put pages up on my website where I did a lot of article submission way back then so I was getting a lot of traffic that way. When I started doing that, I worked as a psychologist for a couple of years after that and then I ran into some challenges with managed care so I began to look at opening a coaching business which I ultimately did and then I used search engine optimization to fill that coaching business so I gain some skills there and then that too took off really well and then basically about 2003, people started to approach me because they were noticing that I was having really good luck with attracting clients online.

They began to approach me and they said, how is it you get clients online? I said, you do this and you do that and you do that and they said, no. I don't want to learn it from you. I want you to do it for me. I said, I don't know if it will work for you because I've only ever done it for myself but I agree to take on a handful of clients back in 2003 and I've been doing this work ever since so it's actually gone, it has gone really well so that's how I got online and really what I've seen, it's easier than ever to get started online but that actually in some ways makes it more difficult I think to build a sustainable business online now compared to before.

Lance Tamashiro:
Right. Along those lines like what are the things that you see people struggling with the most or even some of the biggest mistakes that they're making by the time they find you and say I can't make this work, what should I do?

Dr. R. Jain:
Yeah. The people that I tend to work with the most tend to be people who have a professional level background. I tend to work with a lot of coaches, speakers, consultants, people like that of physicians, things like that who want to build an online business either as a main income stream or additional income stream to like a local practice or a local business. Typically what happens is by the time people come to me, they've been working online for a period of time. They have been studying everything they feel like they need to study but they're not really seeing results. One of the firs things I do with someone is, I really try to assess with them what their goals are and what their business model is and what actually business model would suit them best.

Then we systematically pair away everything that's not that because you've been online a long time too I know and you've seen that every day there's a new product that comes out or a new service or a new something and if you're on a lot of mailing list, you're going to think every single day there's a new business model that you have to pursue, right, or a new traffic strategy or something like that but really what we see is that the most stable businesses are built on a solid foundation or just like three or four services maybe six or eight marketing channels and really a lot of times it's about focus and simplification and going deeper rather than going broader or wider.

Lance Tamashiro:
Right, and I mean and I think that's like a really hard thing. I deal with a lot of people just getting started or I love putting, I've been around struggling trying to do stuff that just isn't working for them and it's always the same thing. They're distracted and I know part of it is we're caught up in this marketing world and the job of marketers are always to sell a new product but I think at the end of the day it's like almost like people are looking for, they say they're looking for this simple solution to their problem and in reality, they're trying to make things more difficult. At least my experience is like you said there's only a very few things that you actually need to do and then actually work and I know when I got started it was like, it can't be that easy. While I was always trying to make it easier and make it better, in a weird way I was trying to make it more complicated at the same time.

Dr. R. Jain:
I think that is so common. I'm really glad that you shared that because I think we all believe that it, I think everyone who starts online believes it should be more difficult and the reason for that I think is because you have to have a certain amount of technological skill or capacity or either be able to learn it or hire out for it and I think people mistake the difficulty of the technology like how does this connect to that and how do you upload a plugin and how do you upload a theme and all of those kinds of things. They mistake the technology for strategy.

One of the things I talk about, I wrote a book called Internet Marketing For The Rest Of Us and in that book I talked about how important it is to understand the strategy of your online business and not worry about the tools first. Because if you have the strategy down, there's 50 or 100 or 150 tools that you could select. What I think happens though is in the absence of strategy. People keep investing in tools and then they really have no foundation upon which to build their business.

Lance Tamashiro:
One thing that really switched for me when I finally figured out exactly what you're talking about is that I used to always complain like I can't focus on everything, I'm overwhelmed. It's a new bright shiny object that's in my inbox and one of the things that I figured out is that once I figured out that my business was actually pretty simple. It was like traffic, lead capture, and then selling something, and then I looked at my business in that fashion, a weird thing happened where all the shiny objects went away and now all of a sudden it was, does this fit into my business? Am I struggling with traffic? I can plug this in and exactly what you're saying I mean I feel like a lot of people, they jump from tool to tool thinking it's going to help them and then they cry, I was scammed or it doesn't work. The truth is that, you never had the foundation in place to utilize that tool. It's not necessarily that the tool didn't worked. It's that you weren't ready for it.

Dr. R. Jain:
Absolutely. What you talked about, what you described was actually creating a framework for your business so you had suddenly a frame and you could say this fits in my frame and this doesn't fit in my frame and that helps you make decisions about what do I need to add? What do I need to take out? What do I keep? What do I let go of? An analogy would be that if you decide to go to the grocery store and you are going to buy something for dinner but you haven't decided what you're going to make for dinner yet, you have no idea how many ingredients you'll need or what ingredients you'll need and you might buy 50 things or 100 things and come home and not be able to make dinner because you didn't buy anything that actually connected to each other. What you describe is this idea of creating a frame and then being able to decide what belongs in the frame of the picture and what doesn't. Just even that much clarity can make a huge difference in the success of somebody's new business.

Lance Tamashiro:
Awesome. I love that. When somebody comes to you, what is the process that you walk them through? I know you help them to get clarity in all this but I mean are you tearing stuff down? Are you showing them where they should be focused on? How does that, if somebody is stuck I mean if somebody finds themselves in this position of I'm struggling, I'm overwhelmed, I hear that I need a framework like where do they go next?

Dr. R. Jain:
What I do is I start, I have a background in testing so everything I do starts with an assessment basically so I actually take potential clients through what I call a profit score assessment and what that does is it actually gives them a snapshot of where they are today and by them going through that assessment, I can see where the trouble spots are. What I tend to see is that online businesses and online business owners tend to have problems in one of three areas. The first area is that of building audience so I can tell by the way that they complete the profit score if they are having an audience attraction problem, right? Because if you don't get attention, you can't do anything else. If that problem exist, that's the first place to focus. The second area that people run into or problem areas that they have an audience but they're not monetizing them well or they're not creating enough profit in their business.

I can tell that from my assessment too and then the third level is actually one that's really for generally more advanced business and more established businesses, it's an optimization problem where they have audience, they have profitability, but they don't have enough systems or business processes so that the business owners getting burned out. I start with an assessment that helps me define the frame that we're working in and so many business owners come to me because they are wanting to build an audience and so we start there. Once their audience is built, we move into the profitability pieces and once the profitability is working, we move into the optimization. I tend to work with clients for many years just because the model that I take them through helps them build from the beginning and then helps letting them improve continually as we proceed.

Lance Tamashiro:
Let's talk about this in the way you walk them through with the audience because I think that what I hear is traffic, audience, followers, however you want to put that and I think that mine as your response is, I'm supposed to be on Twitter, I'm supposed to be on Facebook, I'm supposed to build an email list. Where do you see people going wrong with that? Because I'm sure they come to you and they say, Dr. Jain I've tried all of these things. I've tried building a list, I can't. I've tried having a following on Facebook, I can't. Where do you point people to go when they're in that position?

Dr. R. Jain:
Yeah. One of the things I first do is I first ask them how many platforms they're trying to work simultaneously. That's the first thing, right, because you've probably seen too that people sometimes will again go very wide rather than deep. They will be on Twitter and LinkedIn and Pinterest and Instagram and Facebook and they don't know how to use any of them well enough to get any results. The first thing I do is find out how many platforms they're on. I help them look at their followers, their engagement, how many people are interacting with them maybe where they feel most comfortable and then we decide, we agree to decide that they're going to focus on just one platform for the time being. Once we decide on the platform then, we look at the way in which they're interacting with their audience, what messaging that they're giving out because what I've seen is one of the biggest challenges in growing a following especially now is that there is so much stimulus online.

We were talking about that in the beginning but there is so much things that can distract you every second of every day. Many times that people are having trouble building a following online it's because they haven't been specific enough. They put themselves out there as a health coach or a wellness coach rather than a health coach who specifically deals with women who are recovering from breast cancer or something like that, right? There's not that specificity so they're trying to talk to everyone and then the problem is they get lost in the noise of social media and they're not talking to anyone. We really try to look at them focusing on a platform, focusing on their messaging, and then we, one of the biggest things I do is help people stick with it until they start to see results so I teach them how to analyze the results they're getting.

I teach them how to read their metrics and understand what they're seeing so they know if they're actually on the right track if they should just keep going if something needs to change. Because I think many times people don't even know how to assess how they're doing. They don't know if their experience is normal, if they got an 8% open rate, is that good or not? 25% or clicking through, is that good or not? They don't have a sense of this metrics and so we just try to work on what their baseline metrics are so we know if there's positive adjustments on them that they're heading in the right direction.

Lance Tamashiro:
One of the things and I love that you brought that up because my initial thought was social media as, I just need to get a million followers and then it will be good. It sounds like, you make a distinction between if you have a hundred followers and they're all engaging with you in a way that's better having a million that nobody is even paying attention at all.

Dr. R. Jain:
Yeah. It's absolutely better. There's actually two. There's one, a client story I'll tell you and then there's one framework I use that helps me understand about how many followers you need. The client story I have is that I once worked with a woman who had 800,000 followers on Twitter. 800,000 and she was spending all her time every day you can imagine on Twitter like replying to people and tweeting them and doing this and doing that and she came to me because she said, I obviously have a lot of audience like I'm really good at building audience and I was like, absolutely you are. You have probably one of the highest Twitter accounts I've ever seen and she said but I'm totally broke. I said, okay so we talked about that and basically it turned out that she really wasn't offering the money thing.

What she was offering them, she wasn't double downing on. She was just offering it once and like a random tweet and like, we're not bringing up again and that is always a really good lesson for me because it always reminds me that it's not just the fact that you got a certain number of count on your Twitter page, it's how many people. It's how many people are actually engaging with you or responding to you or listening to you, all these things. That's always the story I remember there that you can have 800,000 followers in any platform and still be struggling with money. The other model that I use a lot and you're maybe familiar with it is the model of a thousand true fans that Kevin Kelly created. He's the past editor of Wired Magazine and he has a really nice model for understanding social reach and social engagement.

What he talks about is he takes the example of a mythical music band like rock band and he says that if that rock band could create a thousand true fans and so a thousand fans who are true and what he defines as true in that model is that every fans spends at least $100 a year with that band. They travel to see them in concert, maybe they buy a CD or MP3. They buy t-shirts. They tell their friends they do things like that. He said that just, 1000 true fans spending $100 a year, you could have $100,000 business, six figure business and that seems to be like the magical turning point for many people so all that really takes is a thousand people who are willing to spend $100 with you in a year. It can be one person who'll spend $100,000.

It can be a thousand people who will spend a $100 each. I think the idea is that it takes a lot fewer people to make the money that you want to make. When I share that with clients, they tend to feel really relieved because most of them can conceive of meeting a thousand people or 2000 or 3000 people and it relieves them to feel like they can have a solid business and a good income from that level of interaction.

Lance Tamashiro:
One of the things that I know I struggled with and my story and my story was I sold a lot of low ticket stuff. In fact, when I first came online I thought I'm going to write this really great over the top report for $7 and I really thought I was, I mean I'm embarrassed to say I really thought I was going to make like a million dollars over night because who wouldn't buy the damn thing. It was so great. One of the things, I had a mentor really early on. The first thing that he said to me was, you need to raise your prices and for me that was like I mean it was scary. I think at the time when this person I started working with them, we had figured it out and the average price point of everything that I had sold and I had some higher ticket stuff and some lower but it was, it came like to $23.50 was my average sell point and this guy said, you need to sell something for a $1000.

I remember my heart dropping and thinking how am I going to sell something for $1000? I know that you just from your client list and looking at your website stuff I mean you believe in the same thing, how does somebody determine a price point or a value point or get over. For me it was, I needed to have somebody take me by the hand and say, you can do this and here's how you're going to launch this and once I went through that, I was like, I can do this. Some people do respond better. How do you take somebody to that or is that something they need to do?

Dr. R. Jain:
Yeah, I think generally speaking I think the thing to remember and you found this in your own experience is that you can work really, really hard selling a million people a $7 product, right, or you can work hard maybe not as hard selling people $1000 product. The thing I think to think to realize is that most of the time I think pricing is a guessing game and I think that one of the exercises that we can take people through is the idea of looking at their experience, their skillset, what they bring to the table, their level of expertise in the area and I'm a big proponent of becoming an expert in positioning yourself as an expert because experts always make more. If you have to get some extra schooling, if you have to get some extra coaching, if you have to get some extra support, it's worth that investment because people prefer to work with experts. They really do want to work with someone that they know that they can come to you, their problem is going to be addressed and it's going to be solved.

I think the issue of confidence, right? If you also look at it from the idea that all of us make up our pricing all the time and we eventually we back end it with examples of testimonials or case studies of results that we've got for people but I think that there's not really a pricing model that's magic. I think it's a combination of what you're offering? How you position it? How comfortable you feel at that price point and I think definitely most business owners could benefit from some support and guidance of how to go further than they can go themselves like you had your mentor. I know that I worked with really accomplished mentors who are always moving me forward and saying, yeah you could do more than that. You sold 10 of those last week, try to sell 15 or whatever. I think that is really important. I think that and I think it's also fine to start, start at a certain place but then just keep working on improving that.

If you decide that you're going to sell something for $50, make a target. Say, once I sell five, I'm going to raise the price $5 for once and give yourself a stepped up way of doing it. In my experience, I tend to work in a very boutique way so I've never had thousands of clients. I only worked with a core group. They stay with me for a really long time so my cost of marketing and acquisition is very, very low but my lifetime customer value is really, really high and it's basically because the way that I work with my clients is I bring them on first for certain service and I keep listening to them all the way through our relationship and I keep adding on new services that they need. I retain them for a really long time and I think that model, I think a lot of people really do like the one to one work so if you like that as a business owner, if you can offer any done for use services, I think that people are willing to pay more for those as well.

Yeah, I think those are some of the things to think about in pricing and then I think the other thing is to try it. If you have conversations with people and you price something and you've created value, you've explained the value and they signed up so quickly, you know maybe that your pricing is a little bit lower than it might be, right? If they bulk or if they have a lot of objections and you run into that multiple times, you know that either your value description has to be stronger or maybe the pricing needs to be looked up or the way in which they're paying you like maybe they can't afford it all upfront but they could pay you over time or something like that. Having some understanding of that I think are important things to look at.

Lance Tamashiro:
I love that you said, there's no magic price point which because I mean I see and I'll go to Facebook and look around to people and they'll say, here's my funnel. I'm going to have $7 or %17, a $97 and $997, what do you think? I'm thinking, that's not ... Your problem isn't the pricing, your problem is your offer.

Dr. R. Jain:
Yes.

Lance Tamashiro:
You can't say like, is this a good funnel because I have no clue what you're offering and I think that so many people look at that backwards and your follow up to that, that you mentioned was when people come and work with you, you listen to them through the process and when you figure out what they need next, you add it. I see so many people that struggle with, they see somebody that's been around since 1998 and you've got what appears to be this huge well-planned out machine where you got a product for this and a product for that or a service for this and the truth is, is that and that holds people up because they see I can't launch this because I don't have this piece and the truth is, is that when you say you listen and add, it's you didn't, at least I'm not getting the impression that you have this big master steam of all these services. It was, now that I've got you through this and I've got you this result, I know exactly what you need next and then you create that service.

Dr. R. Jain:
That's absolutely right and if you, if anyone whoever to work with me directly, one of the things I tell my clients all the time is let' bring it to market fast and let's iterate it as we go and what I mean by that is we bring it to market as soon as we reasonably can and then we take feedback. We get reactions, we get results, and then we improve it again. That's exactly how I grow my business too. It's not uncommon for me to write five or six new programs in maybe a month like to write them and to like put them out there and just see what my responses. It's just like I didn't get very much response for that. Scrap that. Let's go on to the next thing. The reason I can do it that way is because I've been doing this work long enough. I wouldn't recommend that necessarily for someone to make a decision that rapidly for someone who is super new and didn't have a set of data to work from but it's exactly right.

The thing is, is that one of the things I'm always impressed by with the internet is that any new technology always represents a new business opportunity. When Paris get started or Blab started, if you're one of the first people who got in there, learned how to use the system and even you could use at only 10% better than the person behind you. You could yourself out there as an expert or a consultant or do some services for it. The thing is, is that the biggest thing I think also too and it's to your point also that we can all look at all of really big names in internet marketing, right? I've worked with some really well-known people and then I have people that I admire and look up to in internet marketing realm too and even I sometimes look at them and I'll say wow, they're so well-executed. Their strategy is so amazing. It's so fantastic. I wish I could be more like that but then I find out through things they share or things I read where they're basically doing the same iterative process.

I think the biggest skills really for all of us now to be successful is to be able to test quickly to understand what our metrics or data are showing and to be comfortable continually adding, changing, tweaking, and improving. There is nothing that's a setting stone model and I find even in the cycles of my own business that due to economy or market forces or maybe me changing as a person or a consultant, who knows that my business has to go through some re-jigging or like readjustment every like four years or so. It's really like, it's the idea that you have to become comfortable with the uncertainty of it because the internet for example is always growing and changing in so many ways.

Lance Tamashiro:
Right. When you figured it out, it's already different.

Dr. R. Jain:
Exactly. That's right. That's right. That's right.

Lance Tamashiro:
It's funny that us as either entrepreneurs or solopreneurs or trying to be internet markets, I mean it's funny that we put ourselves to this standard of it's got to be perfect and it's got to be right and then I look at companies like Google, Microsoft, Apple who uses exact same iterative process. Windows wouldn't be out there yet if they didn't put it out and use the same process. The iPhone, every product Google sells is in beta and so it's sometimes hard for us to step back and look and go this is the process of business that today in this environment works because it's changed as soon as you learned it. It's not like you can just set up a store front and that's the end of it. You have to always be working on that.

Dr. R. Jain:
Yeah, absolutely. That's why I think it goes back to some of the points that we touched on earlier. There's no possible for one person to be an expert equally in every single aspect of online business so really it's worthwhile to pick a couple of places where you feel like you can set your flag and be able to develop your skills in those areas because the research that I've read suggest that we really only need maybe between four and six marketing channels to have a very solid business. If you can find four or six things you do and that includes going out in your local community, going to networking or meet-up groups. Places where you meet people. It could include talking to family and friends. That could be a marketing channel about your business and what you do. It takes again, it goes back to the idea that less is more. It takes less than we think to be able to do more.

Lance Tamashiro:
All right. One last thing and then I want to talk about how people can find out about you. What is like a tool or a service or a website that you just absolutely love and that people need to know about?

Dr. R. Jain:
One of my favorite websites is that website called Quantcast and it's a site that gives you demographic data about your website visitors. If you can get it about your website or you can get it about other websites online so it's a really good tool where let's say that you want to model your business after some website that you see online. You can put their URL into Quantcast, it's at quantcast.com and they will give you demographic information like male, female, age, college education. Do they smoke? How many kids do they have? What their average income is in a household? Things like that so you really can then be creating a client profile right at the beginning so you can again create that very targeted messaging that I referenced early on.

Lance Tamashiro:
I love that. It's like you don't have to guess about your avatar that they talk about.

Dr. R. Jain:
Exactly.

Lance Tamashiro:
Built for you. I love that. Where can people find out about you, about your coaching, about just keeping up with you in general.

Dr. R. Jain:
Yeah. The place to do that is on my website which is profitablepopularity.com.

Lance Tamashiro:
Perfect. Everybody should go over there. We'll also have the link in the notes. Dr. Jain, I super appreciate you taking some time out of your busy schedule. I love your message. I love the tons of actionable stuff that the listeners got from this and any time you want to come back, we'd love to have you. I super appreciate your time.

Dr. R. Jain:
Yes. Thank you so much. I'd love to be back.

Lance Tamashiro:
All right. Thanks. Bye now.

Dr. R. Jain:
Thanks, bye.

Share this post